Comments on: PTBNL is Fruto http://natsfarm.com/2007/08/21/ptbnl-is-fruto/ We cannot always build the future for our youth, but we can build our youth for the future - FDR Fri, 30 Jul 2010 11:59:48 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=abc By: jarred http://natsfarm.com/2007/08/21/ptbnl-is-fruto/comment-page-1/#comment-31618 jarred Wed, 22 Aug 2007 11:11:42 +0000 http://farmauthority.dcsportsnet.com/2007/08/21/ptbnl-is-fruto/#comment-31618 <p>so the nats got Wily Mo Pena forr Jose Vido and ten millon dollar off there payroll great trade</p> so the nats got Wily Mo Pena forr Jose Vido and ten millon dollar off there payroll great trade

]]> By: Hartmanbirge http://natsfarm.com/2007/08/21/ptbnl-is-fruto/comment-page-1/#comment-31581 Hartmanbirge Wed, 22 Aug 2007 03:48:32 +0000 http://farmauthority.dcsportsnet.com/2007/08/21/ptbnl-is-fruto/#comment-31581 <p>I really like this deal. Recall that Fruto had supposedly lost 10mph off his fastball (if the anti-Nats ESPN bias is to be believed).. Perhaps. But it's obvious to all that Fruto was having major issues with his command - at least as a starter. And he had similar issues in Seattle system as a reliever. I don't see him cracking the DC bullpen in a month of Sundays. Pena on the other hand obviously is a mega-power bat - no doubt about it. Every time he steps into the box it could go over the roof - one swing to change the entire game. The Nats did not have that dynamic prior to this deal and have no one coming through the system within next few years with that ability. I note that Pena has a cannon arm as well. All he needs is work on his reads and jumps. And best of all - he's only 25 years old. Vidro for Pena? No brainer....</p> I really like this deal. Recall that Fruto had supposedly lost 10mph off his fastball (if the anti-Nats ESPN bias is to be believed).. Perhaps. But it’s obvious to all that Fruto was having major issues with his command – at least as a starter. And he had similar issues in Seattle system as a reliever. I don’t see him cracking the DC bullpen in a month of Sundays. Pena on the other hand obviously is a mega-power bat – no doubt about it. Every time he steps into the box it could go over the roof – one swing to change the entire game. The Nats did not have that dynamic prior to this deal and have no one coming through the system within next few years with that ability. I note that Pena has a cannon arm as well. All he needs is work on his reads and jumps. And best of all – he’s only 25 years old. Vidro for Pena? No brainer….

]]> By: Brian Oliver http://natsfarm.com/2007/08/21/ptbnl-is-fruto/comment-page-1/#comment-31569 Brian Oliver Wed, 22 Aug 2007 00:44:54 +0000 http://farmauthority.dcsportsnet.com/2007/08/21/ptbnl-is-fruto/#comment-31569 <p>Tom - Nothing as yet. Hopefully tomorrow, Columbus will update their transactions.</p> Tom – Nothing as yet. Hopefully tomorrow, Columbus will update their transactions.

]]> By: Tom http://natsfarm.com/2007/08/21/ptbnl-is-fruto/comment-page-1/#comment-31565 Tom Wed, 22 Aug 2007 00:14:12 +0000 http://farmauthority.dcsportsnet.com/2007/08/21/ptbnl-is-fruto/#comment-31565 <p>Brian, what is the word on who replaces Fruto in the Columbus rotation the final two weeks?</p> Brian, what is the word on who replaces Fruto in the Columbus rotation the final two weeks?

]]> By: Dick http://natsfarm.com/2007/08/21/ptbnl-is-fruto/comment-page-1/#comment-31563 Dick Wed, 22 Aug 2007 00:03:53 +0000 http://farmauthority.dcsportsnet.com/2007/08/21/ptbnl-is-fruto/#comment-31563 <p>Over the 3 years from 2004-2006, WMP got between 364-304 plate appearances. He was 21-24 those years. His OPS varied between .796-.843, not bad. This year, he only got 172 plate appearances in Boston with an OPS of .675. No reason to believe at his age he has reverted to .675; he probably just needs ABs. He wasn't going to get them from Manny; he wasn't going to get them from J.D. Drew (the $70 million man) and he wasn't going to get them in Center field (man, would that be ugly). Baseball Prospectus let Wayne Krivsky have it last year about playing Ryan Freel over WMP; but again, he is a corner outfielder, not a center fielder.</p> <p>Let's give him the AB's and watch what happens. Da Meat Hook, Guzman and Hanrahan are the only players on this year's team with an OPS over .800!</p> Over the 3 years from 2004-2006, WMP got between 364-304 plate appearances. He was 21-24 those years. His OPS varied between .796-.843, not bad. This year, he only got 172 plate appearances in Boston with an OPS of .675. No reason to believe at his age he has reverted to .675; he probably just needs ABs. He wasn’t going to get them from Manny; he wasn’t going to get them from J.D. Drew (the $70 million man) and he wasn’t going to get them in Center field (man, would that be ugly). Baseball Prospectus let Wayne Krivsky have it last year about playing Ryan Freel over WMP; but again, he is a corner outfielder, not a center fielder.

Let’s give him the AB’s and watch what happens. Da Meat Hook, Guzman and Hanrahan are the only players on this year’s team with an OPS over .800!

]]> By: A DC Wonk http://natsfarm.com/2007/08/21/ptbnl-is-fruto/comment-page-1/#comment-31557 A DC Wonk Tue, 21 Aug 2007 22:52:52 +0000 http://farmauthority.dcsportsnet.com/2007/08/21/ptbnl-is-fruto/#comment-31557 <p>Ya gotta give up something to get something. Fruto is still a major question-mark, and at the same time (as I'm sure we're all aware) the Nats bullpen has been the best in baseball since July 1, with Colome about to return.</p> <p>So it seems to me, if you have to give up anybody, it'd be a non-starting pitcher. And if it's someone who's having a terrible season at AAA, and who may have arm problems (correct me if I'm wrong, but arm problems on a young power pitcher doesn't bode well) . . . well, it's worth a shot for WMP.</p> <p>My question, otoh, is this: why was WMP having such a bad year this year? Is 2007 the real WMP, or is 2006 (where he had a stellar year) the real WMP? Anyone know why he was .221 in Boston?</p> Ya gotta give up something to get something. Fruto is still a major question-mark, and at the same time (as I’m sure we’re all aware) the Nats bullpen has been the best in baseball since July 1, with Colome about to return.

So it seems to me, if you have to give up anybody, it’d be a non-starting pitcher. And if it’s someone who’s having a terrible season at AAA, and who may have arm problems (correct me if I’m wrong, but arm problems on a young power pitcher doesn’t bode well) . . . well, it’s worth a shot for WMP.

My question, otoh, is this: why was WMP having such a bad year this year? Is 2007 the real WMP, or is 2006 (where he had a stellar year) the real WMP? Anyone know why he was .221 in Boston?

]]> By: Kevin http://natsfarm.com/2007/08/21/ptbnl-is-fruto/comment-page-1/#comment-31555 Kevin Tue, 21 Aug 2007 22:49:34 +0000 http://farmauthority.dcsportsnet.com/2007/08/21/ptbnl-is-fruto/#comment-31555 <p>This is great! The official press release from the Arizona Diamondbacks says that Fruto had gone 3-0 for the Columbus Clippers. They somehow forgot the 9 losses.</p> This is great! The official press release from the Arizona Diamondbacks says that Fruto had gone 3-0 for the Columbus Clippers. They somehow forgot the 9 losses.

]]> By: Kevin http://natsfarm.com/2007/08/21/ptbnl-is-fruto/comment-page-1/#comment-31547 Kevin Tue, 21 Aug 2007 21:41:50 +0000 http://farmauthority.dcsportsnet.com/2007/08/21/ptbnl-is-fruto/#comment-31547 <p>I think there is another way to look at the Wily Mo trade, and I actually am serious about this. Jim Bowden was going to get Pena eventually, and none of us really doubted it. I remember writing to one of the blogs at the beginning of the year (maybe yours Chris- Capitol Punishment?) that something was as certain as Jim Bowden eventually overpaying for Wily Mo Pena.</p> <p>The fact that WMP had a bad year maybe saved us from this. Fruto certainly hasn't even done anything to make the Vidro trade look better (just losing him was good), and he wasn't yet proving himself better as a starter than the flecks of silver (maybe with tinges of gold eventually) that Bowden picked from the tailings pile to craft our rotation.</p> <p>So, we have WMP, and the subsequent dismissal of Langerhans should cause no one any heartburn. I do have to admit that I am stunned that Logan beat him out, but if he keeps hitting, he can stay the year.</p> <p>Finally, losing Fruto, who really is better as a reliever, it seems, is better than losing some of the relievers on the big club. We know they have had a great 2 months. It also means that the team has not only had a great draft, but it did not stand still as talking heads (and I) complained at the trade deadline. We could even trade Ray King and another reliever, waiver willing, and end up fulfilling the goal of acquiring "tradin chips" and then cashing them in.</p> <p>I know I keep saying "we", but I will stop trying not to, and I won't apologize.</p> I think there is another way to look at the Wily Mo trade, and I actually am serious about this. Jim Bowden was going to get Pena eventually, and none of us really doubted it. I remember writing to one of the blogs at the beginning of the year (maybe yours Chris- Capitol Punishment?) that something was as certain as Jim Bowden eventually overpaying for Wily Mo Pena.

The fact that WMP had a bad year maybe saved us from this. Fruto certainly hasn’t even done anything to make the Vidro trade look better (just losing him was good), and he wasn’t yet proving himself better as a starter than the flecks of silver (maybe with tinges of gold eventually) that Bowden picked from the tailings pile to craft our rotation.

So, we have WMP, and the subsequent dismissal of Langerhans should cause no one any heartburn. I do have to admit that I am stunned that Logan beat him out, but if he keeps hitting, he can stay the year.

Finally, losing Fruto, who really is better as a reliever, it seems, is better than losing some of the relievers on the big club. We know they have had a great 2 months. It also means that the team has not only had a great draft, but it did not stand still as talking heads (and I) complained at the trade deadline. We could even trade Ray King and another reliever, waiver willing, and end up fulfilling the goal of acquiring “tradin chips” and then cashing them in.

I know I keep saying “we”, but I will stop trying not to, and I won’t apologize.

]]> By: chris http://natsfarm.com/2007/08/21/ptbnl-is-fruto/comment-page-1/#comment-31546 chris Tue, 21 Aug 2007 21:38:46 +0000 http://farmauthority.dcsportsnet.com/2007/08/21/ptbnl-is-fruto/#comment-31546 <p>Im not arguing that Pena isnt a good pickup, but just because hes hit a couple of HRs doesnt mean hes the second coming. Hes a bad defensive OF who despite all his tools, has never put it together and is on organization #4. My biggest problem is giving up a AAA power arm (despite all the pitching prospects we have, many of them are of the "crafty" variety). I just feel like we gave up too much for a guy who has been given many chances to prove himself, and has failed every time. Does anyone have an article about what the other offers were on the table? Everything I read said he was about to be designated for assignment as they had to make room for Bucholz.</p> <p>So.... I like his power bat but I feel we gave up too much.</p> Im not arguing that Pena isnt a good pickup, but just because hes hit a couple of HRs doesnt mean hes the second coming. Hes a bad defensive OF who despite all his tools, has never put it together and is on organization #4. My biggest problem is giving up a AAA power arm (despite all the pitching prospects we have, many of them are of the “crafty” variety). I just feel like we gave up too much for a guy who has been given many chances to prove himself, and has failed every time. Does anyone have an article about what the other offers were on the table? Everything I read said he was about to be designated for assignment as they had to make room for Bucholz.

So…. I like his power bat but I feel we gave up too much.

]]> By: Pilchard http://natsfarm.com/2007/08/21/ptbnl-is-fruto/comment-page-1/#comment-31545 Pilchard Tue, 21 Aug 2007 21:31:25 +0000 http://farmauthority.dcsportsnet.com/2007/08/21/ptbnl-is-fruto/#comment-31545 <p>I am a skeptical of Wily Mo, but the Nats have a dire need for position players, and have decent corps of arms in the majors and minors. For that reason alone, the move makes sense. If Fruto is able to harness his potential there is a chance that the move could end up being a bad one, but based upon the club's strengths and weaknesses the move makes sense.</p> I am a skeptical of Wily Mo, but the Nats have a dire need for position players, and have decent corps of arms in the majors and minors. For that reason alone, the move makes sense. If Fruto is able to harness his potential there is a chance that the move could end up being a bad one, but based upon the club’s strengths and weaknesses the move makes sense.

]]> By: bdrube http://natsfarm.com/2007/08/21/ptbnl-is-fruto/comment-page-1/#comment-31541 bdrube Tue, 21 Aug 2007 20:59:30 +0000 http://farmauthority.dcsportsnet.com/2007/08/21/ptbnl-is-fruto/#comment-31541 <p>I agree with Dick about Fruto. There must have been a good reason why Seattle was willing to part with him to acquire a creaky singles hitter.</p> <p>Wily Mo-Mentum strikes me as a potential Gorman Thomas or Dave Kingman type hitter. You can live with guy like that in your lineup if you surround him with high OBP guys who'll get on base enough to get knocked in on his 3-run blasts.</p> I agree with Dick about Fruto. There must have been a good reason why Seattle was willing to part with him to acquire a creaky singles hitter.

Wily Mo-Mentum strikes me as a potential Gorman Thomas or Dave Kingman type hitter. You can live with guy like that in your lineup if you surround him with high OBP guys who’ll get on base enough to get knocked in on his 3-run blasts.

]]> By: Brian Oliver http://natsfarm.com/2007/08/21/ptbnl-is-fruto/comment-page-1/#comment-31540 Brian Oliver Tue, 21 Aug 2007 20:55:42 +0000 http://farmauthority.dcsportsnet.com/2007/08/21/ptbnl-is-fruto/#comment-31540 <p>Chris - The others have touched on it. The Nationals gave up a 23-year old potential RH setup man with questions for a 25-year old slugging OF with questions. Given that Pena has shown some ability to perform at the major league level while Fruto is still an unknown, it's a deal worth doing</p> Chris – The others have touched on it. The Nationals gave up a 23-year old potential RH setup man with questions for a 25-year old slugging OF with questions. Given that Pena has shown some ability to perform at the major league level while Fruto is still an unknown, it’s a deal worth doing

]]> By: Dick http://natsfarm.com/2007/08/21/ptbnl-is-fruto/comment-page-1/#comment-31539 Dick Tue, 21 Aug 2007 20:44:09 +0000 http://farmauthority.dcsportsnet.com/2007/08/21/ptbnl-is-fruto/#comment-31539 <p>Chris: You must not have seen the past 3 Nats games, I assume.</p> <p>Also, Fruto is 3-9 with a 5.26 ERA (over 7 since All-Star Break). In 87 innings has given up 78 hits and walked 59 while striking out 68. Nothing warm and fuzzy there. Makes you wonder if he is a candidate for TJ surgery since he went on the DL in June with a sore elbow.</p> Chris: You must not have seen the past 3 Nats games, I assume.

Also, Fruto is 3-9 with a 5.26 ERA (over 7 since All-Star Break). In 87 innings has given up 78 hits and walked 59 while striking out 68. Nothing warm and fuzzy there. Makes you wonder if he is a candidate for TJ surgery since he went on the DL in June with a sore elbow.

]]> By: Eric http://natsfarm.com/2007/08/21/ptbnl-is-fruto/comment-page-1/#comment-31537 Eric Tue, 21 Aug 2007 20:06:50 +0000 http://farmauthority.dcsportsnet.com/2007/08/21/ptbnl-is-fruto/#comment-31537 <p>we gave up a hard throwing 23 year old pitcher with concentration issues for a 25 year old slugging outfielder with the potential for 30+ home runs. Considering that the Nats seem to have a lot more pitching prospects than slugging prospects, I'm totally okay with this deal.</p> we gave up a hard throwing 23 year old pitcher with concentration issues for a 25 year old slugging outfielder with the potential for 30+ home runs. Considering that the Nats seem to have a lot more pitching prospects than slugging prospects, I’m totally okay with this deal.

]]> By: chris http://natsfarm.com/2007/08/21/ptbnl-is-fruto/comment-page-1/#comment-31534 chris Tue, 21 Aug 2007 19:50:47 +0000 http://farmauthority.dcsportsnet.com/2007/08/21/ptbnl-is-fruto/#comment-31534 <p>Last week I liked the pickup. Now, how did we give up a 23 year old hard throwing AAA pitcher, who pitched in the futures game and big leagues, for a guy who was about to be designated for assignment/released? help me out</p> Last week I liked the pickup. Now, how did we give up a 23 year old hard throwing AAA pitcher, who pitched in the futures game and big leagues, for a guy who was about to be designated for assignment/released? help me out

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