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	<title>Comments on: BA&#8217;s Nationals Top 10 Chat</title>
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	<description>We cannot always build the future for our youth, but we can build our youth for the future - FDR</description>
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		<title>By: JCA</title>
		<link>http://natsfarm.com/2009/11/11/bas-nationals-top-10-chat/comment-page-1/#comment-395309</link>
		<dc:creator>JCA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Nov 2009 19:54:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://natsfarm.com/?p=4018#comment-395309</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Other than Hood, is there anyone in the Nats top 10 who slipped from the first round due to signability concerns and who we convinced to sign with us by going substantially above slot?  That is one way to get high end prospects quickly.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Sorry to fall back on the Red Sox as an example to illustrate this, but BP has come out with their top 11 and one of the organization&#039;s two 5-star players is Ryan Westmoreland, who was a 5th round pick bound for college until the team paid him one of their highest bonuses his draft year (2008) (present value - $1.6m - $2m deferred over 5 years).  5 stars translate to top 50 prospects for BP, and 4 stars translate to top 100.  Their 4 stars also include Josh Reddick (&#039;06 17th round, $140K), and Ryan Kalish (&#039;06 9th round, $600K).   Those are three players likely to be in BA&#039;s top 100 who we can say did not have to be drafted high to be top prospects.  Probably only Westmoreland has an all-star upside potential, but the point is that you can accelerate your system getting paying for talent that slips and not just out of the #1s, supplementals, and #2s.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Also, it&#039;s nice to see at least one international close to the top 10 (Perez).  You&#039;ve made this point before, but internationals are another way to improve a system beyond high draft choices.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Other than Hood, is there anyone in the Nats top 10 who slipped from the first round due to signability concerns and who we convinced to sign with us by going substantially above slot?  That is one way to get high end prospects quickly.</p>

<p>Sorry to fall back on the Red Sox as an example to illustrate this, but BP has come out with their top 11 and one of the organization&#8217;s two 5-star players is Ryan Westmoreland, who was a 5th round pick bound for college until the team paid him one of their highest bonuses his draft year (2008) (present value &#8211; $1.6m &#8211; $2m deferred over 5 years).  5 stars translate to top 50 prospects for BP, and 4 stars translate to top 100.  Their 4 stars also include Josh Reddick (&#8216;06 17th round, $140K), and Ryan Kalish (&#8216;06 9th round, $600K).   Those are three players likely to be in BA&#8217;s top 100 who we can say did not have to be drafted high to be top prospects.  Probably only Westmoreland has an all-star upside potential, but the point is that you can accelerate your system getting paying for talent that slips and not just out of the #1s, supplementals, and #2s.</p>

<p>Also, it&#8217;s nice to see at least one international close to the top 10 (Perez).  You&#8217;ve made this point before, but internationals are another way to improve a system beyond high draft choices.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: R-Zim#11</title>
		<link>http://natsfarm.com/2009/11/11/bas-nationals-top-10-chat/comment-page-1/#comment-395280</link>
		<dc:creator>R-Zim#11</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Nov 2009 15:33:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://natsfarm.com/?p=4018#comment-395280</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote cite=&quot;#commentbody-395250&quot;&gt;
&lt;strong&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-395250&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Pilchard&lt;/a&gt; :&lt;/strong&gt;
          &lt;p&gt;So, for all the Lerner/Kasten bluster about the commitment to investing in player development, pretty amazing that the 3 of the top 5 bonuses in organization player development history  were paid by Jeffrey Loria 7, 8 and 9 years ago.&lt;/p&gt;         &lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;p&gt;So it doesn&#039;t matter that Strasburg alone exceeds the total value of all three of those complete busts?&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;All that shows is that Loria paid a lot of money for complete garbage.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The Lerner&#039;s have had all of three drafts. If you want to hang the Crow debacle on their heads, fine. Most people with an objective eye see that was Bowden and the Hendricks idiots.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;For what it&#039;s worth -- I am very excited about the most recent draft class. Storen looks like an ice-in-his-veins closer.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote cite="#commentbody-395250">
<strong><a href="#comment-395250" rel="nofollow">Pilchard</a> :</strong>
          <p>So, for all the Lerner/Kasten bluster about the commitment to investing in player development, pretty amazing that the 3 of the top 5 bonuses in organization player development history  were paid by Jeffrey Loria 7, 8 and 9 years ago.</p>         </blockquote>

<p>So it doesn&#8217;t matter that Strasburg alone exceeds the total value of all three of those complete busts?</p>

<p>All that shows is that Loria paid a lot of money for complete garbage.</p>

<p>The Lerner&#8217;s have had all of three drafts. If you want to hang the Crow debacle on their heads, fine. Most people with an objective eye see that was Bowden and the Hendricks idiots.</p>

<p>For what it&#8217;s worth &#8212; I am very excited about the most recent draft class. Storen looks like an ice-in-his-veins closer.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: BinM</title>
		<link>http://natsfarm.com/2009/11/11/bas-nationals-top-10-chat/comment-page-1/#comment-395278</link>
		<dc:creator>BinM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Nov 2009 01:30:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://natsfarm.com/?p=4018#comment-395278</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Just wondering why players like Tyler Moore (1B-HAG), Brett Newsome (1B-GCL), Steve Lombardozzi (2B-HAG), Francisco Soriano (2B-VT), Mike Daniel (LF-HAG/SYR), and pitchers like Jeff Mandel (SP-POT/HAR/AFL, LH), Bradley Meyers (SP-POT/HAR), Tom Milone (SP-POT, LH), Juan Jaime (SP-VT/HAG), Patrick Lehman (SP-VT/HAG) and others aren&#039;t getting the &quot;love&quot; that some of the others seem to recieve.  Is it age, is it draft-rank, or something else?&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just wondering why players like Tyler Moore (1B-HAG), Brett Newsome (1B-GCL), Steve Lombardozzi (2B-HAG), Francisco Soriano (2B-VT), Mike Daniel (LF-HAG/SYR), and pitchers like Jeff Mandel (SP-POT/HAR/AFL, LH), Bradley Meyers (SP-POT/HAR), Tom Milone (SP-POT, LH), Juan Jaime (SP-VT/HAG), Patrick Lehman (SP-VT/HAG) and others aren&#8217;t getting the &#8220;love&#8221; that some of the others seem to recieve.  Is it age, is it draft-rank, or something else?</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Hoagie</title>
		<link>http://natsfarm.com/2009/11/11/bas-nationals-top-10-chat/comment-page-1/#comment-395262</link>
		<dc:creator>Hoagie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 03:24:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://natsfarm.com/?p=4018#comment-395262</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I assume ZNN would fall in the 4-6 range because of the injury?&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Even with TJ surgery, I&#039;m surprised they don&#039;t consider him at least a potential future impact starter.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I assume ZNN would fall in the 4-6 range because of the injury?</p>

<p>Even with TJ surgery, I&#8217;m surprised they don&#8217;t consider him at least a potential future impact starter.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: natteringnabob</title>
		<link>http://natsfarm.com/2009/11/11/bas-nationals-top-10-chat/comment-page-1/#comment-395260</link>
		<dc:creator>natteringnabob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 01:06:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://natsfarm.com/?p=4018#comment-395260</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Hmm, the numbers disappeared - let&#039;s try again&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;1 Zimmermann (&lt;em&gt;) 
2 Detwiler (&lt;/em&gt;) 
3 Marrero (6) 
4 Burgess (9) 
5 McGeary (?) 
6 Norris (2) 
7 Hood (10) 
8 Nieto (?) 
9 Ramirez (?) 
10 former Smiley Gonzales 
11 Maxwell (8) 
12 Mock (&lt;em&gt;) 
13 Martis (&lt;/em&gt;) 
14 Espinoza (5) 
15 Hicks (?) 
16 Davis (?) 
17 Rhinehart (?) 
18 Bernadina (?) 
19 Desmond (4) 
20 Stammen (*) 
21 Estrada (?) 
22 out of organization 
23 King (?) 
24 Atwood (?) 
25 Smoker (?) 
26 Willems (?) 
27 Atilano (?) 
28 Van Allen (?) 
29 Montz (?) 
30 out of organization&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmm, the numbers disappeared &#8211; let&#8217;s try again</p>

<p>1 Zimmermann (<em>) 
2 Detwiler (</em>) 
3 Marrero (6) 
4 Burgess (9) 
5 McGeary (?) 
6 Norris (2) 
7 Hood (10) 
8 Nieto (?) 
9 Ramirez (?) 
10 former Smiley Gonzales 
11 Maxwell (8) 
12 Mock (<em>) 
13 Martis (</em>) 
14 Espinoza (5) 
15 Hicks (?) 
16 Davis (?) 
17 Rhinehart (?) 
18 Bernadina (?) 
19 Desmond (4) 
20 Stammen (*) 
21 Estrada (?) 
22 out of organization 
23 King (?) 
24 Atwood (?) 
25 Smoker (?) 
26 Willems (?) 
27 Atilano (?) 
28 Van Allen (?) 
29 Montz (?) 
30 out of organization</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: natteringnabob</title>
		<link>http://natsfarm.com/2009/11/11/bas-nationals-top-10-chat/comment-page-1/#comment-395259</link>
		<dc:creator>natteringnabob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 01:04:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://natsfarm.com/?p=4018#comment-395259</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Here&#039;s a look at last year&#039;s BA prospect list, with the 2009 result in parentheses. A &quot;*&quot; means they are no longer eligible due to meeting innings or AB requirements. Five pitchers &quot;graduated&quot; from the list.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;ol&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Zimmermann (*)&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Detwiler (*)&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Marrero (6)&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Burgess (9)&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;McGeary (?)&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Norris (2)&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Hood (10)&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Nieto (?)&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Ramirez (?)&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;former Smiley Gonzales&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Maxwell (8)&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Mock (*)&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Martis (*)&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Espinoza (5)&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Hicks (?)&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Davis (?)&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Rhinehart (?)&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Bernadina (?)&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Desmond (4)&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Stammen (*)&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Estrada (?)&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;out of organization&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;King (?)&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Atwood (?)&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Smoker (?)&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Willems (?)&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Atilano (?)&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Van Allen (?)&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Montz (?)&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;out of organization&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;/ol&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s a look at last year&#8217;s BA prospect list, with the 2009 result in parentheses. A &#8220;*&#8221; means they are no longer eligible due to meeting innings or AB requirements. Five pitchers &#8220;graduated&#8221; from the list.</p>

<ol>
<li>Zimmermann (*)</li>
<li>Detwiler (*)</li>
<li>Marrero (6)</li>
<li>Burgess (9)</li>
<li>McGeary (?)</li>
<li>Norris (2)</li>
<li>Hood (10)</li>
<li>Nieto (?)</li>
<li>Ramirez (?)</li>
<li>former Smiley Gonzales</li>
<li>Maxwell (8)</li>
<li>Mock (*)</li>
<li>Martis (*)</li>
<li>Espinoza (5)</li>
<li>Hicks (?)</li>
<li>Davis (?)</li>
<li>Rhinehart (?)</li>
<li>Bernadina (?)</li>
<li>Desmond (4)</li>
<li>Stammen (*)</li>
<li>Estrada (?)</li>
<li>out of organization</li>
<li>King (?)</li>
<li>Atwood (?)</li>
<li>Smoker (?)</li>
<li>Willems (?)</li>
<li>Atilano (?)</li>
<li>Van Allen (?)</li>
<li>Montz (?)</li>
<li>out of organization</li>
</ol>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: WallyBall</title>
		<link>http://natsfarm.com/2009/11/11/bas-nationals-top-10-chat/comment-page-1/#comment-395258</link>
		<dc:creator>WallyBall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 00:20:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://natsfarm.com/?p=4018#comment-395258</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I also agree with Fitt&#039;s comment about Rizzo.  Amen.  I would still like to see some sign of the sabre trend, but no doubt that he is putting together a very solid, professional group.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;As for the rankings, seems like they mostly got it right, although you can always quibble with a few points.  Mine was his offhand comment on JZimm.  Pre-injury and with his prospect status intact, he would be the easy #2 prospect.  Not sure how to rank him with TJ, but I would still have him quite a ways above Detwiler.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I also agree with Fitt&#8217;s comment about Rizzo.  Amen.  I would still like to see some sign of the sabre trend, but no doubt that he is putting together a very solid, professional group.</p>

<p>As for the rankings, seems like they mostly got it right, although you can always quibble with a few points.  Mine was his offhand comment on JZimm.  Pre-injury and with his prospect status intact, he would be the easy #2 prospect.  Not sure how to rank him with TJ, but I would still have him quite a ways above Detwiler.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: cass</title>
		<link>http://natsfarm.com/2009/11/11/bas-nationals-top-10-chat/comment-page-1/#comment-395257</link>
		<dc:creator>cass</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 23:42:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://natsfarm.com/?p=4018#comment-395257</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Thanks, Brian!&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Brian!</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Brian Oliver</title>
		<link>http://natsfarm.com/2009/11/11/bas-nationals-top-10-chat/comment-page-1/#comment-395256</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Oliver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 23:33:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://natsfarm.com/?p=4018#comment-395256</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;cass - he is scheduled to make his next start on Saturday&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>cass &#8211; he is scheduled to make his next start on Saturday</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Jake</title>
		<link>http://natsfarm.com/2009/11/11/bas-nationals-top-10-chat/comment-page-1/#comment-395255</link>
		<dc:creator>Jake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 23:14:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://natsfarm.com/?p=4018#comment-395255</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I really like that they have Danny Rosenbaum up there. Great guy and great player. Hope he continues playing well!&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I really like that they have Danny Rosenbaum up there. Great guy and great player. Hope he continues playing well!</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: cass</title>
		<link>http://natsfarm.com/2009/11/11/bas-nationals-top-10-chat/comment-page-1/#comment-395254</link>
		<dc:creator>cass</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 22:42:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://natsfarm.com/?p=4018#comment-395254</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Has anyone heard anything about Strasburg since last Friday? He was scratched from the Rising Stars game on Saturday but it sounded like he&#039;d make his next appearance. However, looking the probable starters for the Desert Dogs, there&#039;s no sign of him even on Friday, which would have been his next start after the Rising Stars game.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I was hoping that if the Desert Dogs don&#039;t blow it (and right now, it looks like they will blow it...), he&#039;d be able to start the Championship game on TV, but now, I&#039;m not sure if he&#039;s even still in the AFL. Can&#039;t find any info on how he&#039;s doing anywhere.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Has anyone heard anything about Strasburg since last Friday? He was scratched from the Rising Stars game on Saturday but it sounded like he&#8217;d make his next appearance. However, looking the probable starters for the Desert Dogs, there&#8217;s no sign of him even on Friday, which would have been his next start after the Rising Stars game.</p>

<p>I was hoping that if the Desert Dogs don&#8217;t blow it (and right now, it looks like they will blow it&#8230;), he&#8217;d be able to start the Championship game on TV, but now, I&#8217;m not sure if he&#8217;s even still in the AFL. Can&#8217;t find any info on how he&#8217;s doing anywhere.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Sue Dinem</title>
		<link>http://natsfarm.com/2009/11/11/bas-nationals-top-10-chat/comment-page-1/#comment-395253</link>
		<dc:creator>Sue Dinem</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 22:16:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://natsfarm.com/?p=4018#comment-395253</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Please, please, please - let&#039;s not go back to the lowest-common-denominator blatherings about money spent. Leave that for NJ and the talk-radio ilk (I know, I know - probably not much difference between those two groups) that has (mostly) slithered away.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;As BA noted, it&#039;s a start to have a better GM in place and I&#039;d much rather focus on what Rizzo and his crew will do in their first full offseason together to continue the rebuilding of the farm system, versus lamenting what the previous front-offices did or didn&#039;t do. Maybe there was a time for that pity party, but that time has passed.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Please, please, please &#8211; let&#8217;s not go back to the lowest-common-denominator blatherings about money spent. Leave that for NJ and the talk-radio ilk (I know, I know &#8211; probably not much difference between those two groups) that has (mostly) slithered away.</p>

<p>As BA noted, it&#8217;s a start to have a better GM in place and I&#8217;d much rather focus on what Rizzo and his crew will do in their first full offseason together to continue the rebuilding of the farm system, versus lamenting what the previous front-offices did or didn&#8217;t do. Maybe there was a time for that pity party, but that time has passed.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: DJ</title>
		<link>http://natsfarm.com/2009/11/11/bas-nationals-top-10-chat/comment-page-1/#comment-395251</link>
		<dc:creator>DJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 21:37:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://natsfarm.com/?p=4018#comment-395251</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Eh, Strasburg and Zimmermann are front of the line starters and Detwiler is making a good case for a strong #4 (maybe even #3). That&#039;s pretty darn decent.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;We have control over Zimmerman, Morgan and Flores for the forseeable future and pieces like Desmond and Marrero are stepping up.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;We still have a long ways to go, but we&#039;re getting better.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eh, Strasburg and Zimmermann are front of the line starters and Detwiler is making a good case for a strong #4 (maybe even #3). That&#8217;s pretty darn decent.</p>

<p>We have control over Zimmerman, Morgan and Flores for the forseeable future and pieces like Desmond and Marrero are stepping up.</p>

<p>We still have a long ways to go, but we&#8217;re getting better.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Pilchard</title>
		<link>http://natsfarm.com/2009/11/11/bas-nationals-top-10-chat/comment-page-1/#comment-395250</link>
		<dc:creator>Pilchard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 21:01:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://natsfarm.com/?p=4018#comment-395250</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;In the summary of the bonus and draft history, thought it was interesting that the 3rd highest bonus paid to a draftee or international free agent (after SS and Ryan Z) was the the $2.95 million paid to Justin Wayne in 2000, the 4th highest was the $2.6 million paid to Josh Karp in 2001, and the 5th highest was the $2.5 million paid to Clint Everts in 2002.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;So, for all the Lerner/Kasten bluster about the commitment to investing in player development, pretty amazing that the 3 of the top 5 bonuses in organization player development history  were paid by Jeffrey Loria 7, 8 and 9 years ago.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In the summary of the bonus and draft history, thought it was interesting that the 3rd highest bonus paid to a draftee or international free agent (after SS and Ryan Z) was the the $2.95 million paid to Justin Wayne in 2000, the 4th highest was the $2.6 million paid to Josh Karp in 2001, and the 5th highest was the $2.5 million paid to Clint Everts in 2002.</p>

<p>So, for all the Lerner/Kasten bluster about the commitment to investing in player development, pretty amazing that the 3 of the top 5 bonuses in organization player development history  were paid by Jeffrey Loria 7, 8 and 9 years ago.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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