It appears the dust has settled and the Nationals have ended up with 30 new players. Surprisingly added at the last minute were 11th round OF Marcus Jones out of NC State and 15th round HS OF J.P. Ramirez. It’s been released that Ramirez got a $1 million bonus to skip out on his commitment to Tulane.
Missing from this list is one name … 1st round RHP Aaron Crow. It appears the gamesmanship and posturing between the two sides did not result in a deal.
Here is what Baseball America has
One source indicated the Crow camp, led by his agents the Hendricks Brothers, dropped their demands to $4 million from the $8-$10 million range, and that the Nationals came up from slot to $3.3 million, but that the two sides ran out of time and wiggle room and couldn’t work out a compromise.
Ran out of time? Seriously?
I’m not sure what to say about that.
Both sides deserve their share of blame if they were $700K apart and ran out of time.
I am going to bed and I’ll think about how I really feel about this in the AM.
UPDATE: I’m still here trying to digest this. A reliable contact told me to not assume that statement from BBA was 100% accurate. It was suggested that this could be spin from one side to control the story. It seems most likely that would be Crow’s people trying to spin the story their way. I am anxious to hear what the Nationals have to say about this. Until then, I’m going to try and clear my head and go to sleep.
UPDATE 2: Still here. Chico Harlan at Nationals Journal has more details. The story gets a bit more concrete. Bowden claims the difference was $900K while Hendricks is sticking to the original $700K
GM Jim Bowden just said that the team offered $3.5 million plus a major league contract, but that Crow wanted $4.4 million.
According to Crow’s agent, Randy Hendricks, Crow would have taken $4 million. The team was willing to go no higher than $3.3 million.
Now that I’ve heard both sides of the story, there is more than enough blame to go around to both parties.
Hendricks and by extension Crow should be embarrassed that a deal that exceeded the one offered to Brian Matusz was not good enough. He has risked his future over $800K (splitting the difference).
The Nationals should be embarrassed that they missed out on their first round draft pick by $800K (splitting the difference). For a team that has claimed over an over that they are rebuilding through the farm, the loss of a talented player over $800K seems shortsighted.
$800K is just over two seasons of getting paid the major league minimum.
#1 by MrMadison - August 16th, 2008 at 00:42
sounds to me like Crow’s camp caved at the last possible minute, but it was already too late.
#2 by Guy - August 16th, 2008 at 00:43
Brian,
I know what I think. Bowden needs to go.
#3 by Andrew S. - August 16th, 2008 at 00:46
MrMadison, both sides caved. Remember Bowden saying we have nothing left to discuss? Wasted time.
The minute Bowden goes on about having 2 top round draft picks next year I will laugh. Anyone think he sticks around to enjoy them?
#4 by VladiHondo - August 16th, 2008 at 00:47
Appears only Crow and Cole did not sign in 1st round.
#5 by Brian Oliver - August 16th, 2008 at 00:49
I’m still sitting here stunned. While getting Jones & Ramirez was a pleasant surprise and though I’m skeptical about it, the #10 isn’t nothing.
I’m shocked that $700K and a couple of minutes blew up the Crow deal. If that’s true, the incompetence on both sides is jaw-dropping.
I’d have felt better not knowing that.
Honestly.
#6 by Andrew F - August 16th, 2008 at 00:49
Disastrous. I’m truly stunned.
#7 by Brian H - August 16th, 2008 at 00:50
Brian- I’ll be interested to get your take on this tomorrow morning. I’m happy to see that the Nats didn’t cave and give him a huge deal in the range that we had initially heard the Crow camp was looking for, but (assuming Hosmer signs) to be the only team not to sign their pick from the top half of the 1st says a lot to me about the organization and direction of our front office. Further, it reinforces the point that Heyman made in his column earlier about our FO being a “train wreck”.
At the end of the day, to see the two sides end up $700k apart is a real shame because we’re not in any position to be giving up opportunities to acquire talent, especially premium young talent like this. The comp pick next yr will be a nice bonus, but losing out on one of the drafts top pitchers, and a yr of development time (which we can sorely afford to squander right now) really sticks in my crawl.
#8 by Andrew S. - August 16th, 2008 at 00:51
cries himself to sleep
#9 by SlowPitch63 - August 16th, 2008 at 00:59
JB has raised incompetence to an art form.
Let’s play two……without JB.
#10 by VladiHondo - August 16th, 2008 at 01:03
For tonight’s signings, just above us at 7th was Alonso, who signed for $4-4.5 million, ML contract; and Smoak at 11th, who signed for $3.5 and no ML contract.
We got stuck at $3.3????
#11 by Vincent - August 16th, 2008 at 01:09
To borrow the lyrics of Elvis Costello, “I used to be disgusted — now I try to be amused.” (It’s all I can do to keep from crying.)
#12 by Mike - August 16th, 2008 at 01:23
From NJ:
“The difference?
Somewhere between $900,000 and $700,000, depending on the side you listen to.
GM Jim Bowden just said that the team offered $3.5 million plus a major league contract, but that Crow wanted $4.4 million.
According to Crow’s agent, Randy Hendricks, Crow would have taken $4 million. The team was willing to go no higher than $3.3 million.”
So, which ever story you choose to believe, the difference was less than $1M.
#13 by MrMadison - August 16th, 2008 at 01:30
according to another interview with Bowden:
“They made… their first proposal to us came on August 12, for $9 million. That offer did not change until 11:40 tonight when they moved dramatically to $4.4 million.”
#14 by MrMadison - August 16th, 2008 at 01:32
that is a part of the most recent comments from Bowden on Nationals Journal.
#15 by MrMadison - August 16th, 2008 at 01:37
question…
how many of our picks did we actually sign? everyone except Crow?
#16 by Steven - August 16th, 2008 at 01:38
Yeah and Bowden’s been saying for months that it’s “slot or nothing, punk.” He told Crow on Tuesday that there was no point in even talking. And now he’s complaining that they didn’t talk more?
#17 by Andrew S. - August 16th, 2008 at 01:39
Great point Steven. “There is nothing left to talk about.”
#18 by hartmanbirge - August 16th, 2008 at 01:41
What a circus. We have two of the top ten picks next year. Wow. Am I supposed to be excited? Who’s to say that we sign both or either of them? Will next year’s top two “run out of time” at the deadline too? Assuming that both go to the deadline and do get signed, next year is lost anyway. They won’t even really play until 2010. By the time they reach the bigs it will be 2012. It is now 2008. And Ramiriz? Wow. The guy is 5-10 185 with a weak arm and is slow. To me he’s a non-prospect and we gave him $1 million. Destin Hood? Weak arm. I think this is going to go down as a crappy draft and we can’t afford that. Marrero has been set back a year. Detwiler can’t get anyone out. Smoker was bounced around the ballpark like a child. Rhinehart has stopped hitting. Maxwell was a mirage and can’t hit or stay healthy. The only hope I have is that Jordan Zimmerman makes it.
#19 by MrMadison - August 16th, 2008 at 01:48
I’m not at all upset about him letting Crow walk. normally I’m all about the bashing Jim Bowden., but I’m not jumping on the bandwagon this time.
Crow’s stock will drop in next year’s draft, and he’ll make LESS money than what we offered him….if he doesn’t blow his elbow out with that delivery first.
if there is anything I’m upset about now, it is that we should have drafted Smoak anyway.
#20 by Offense/offensive - August 16th, 2008 at 02:06
I don’t know what to think right now, other than that this is a huge loss. No matter how it is spun, the Nationals, a rebuilding team who stated that the way they are going to build a winner is through the draft, did not sign their first pick from this year’s draft. On a related note, I’m 98% sure Bowden is gone after the season.
#21 by Offense/offensive - August 16th, 2008 at 02:20
And I say that based on several years of borderline incompetence and, perhaps more tellingly, in the comments made by Stan Kasten tonight on the Nationals Journal.
#22 by Guy - August 16th, 2008 at 02:32
Incompetence, incompetence, incompetence!!!!!!!
#23 by Steveo - August 16th, 2008 at 03:30
Crow not signing. First off I need to say two things: 1. Thank god we at least signed Ramirez or tonight would have totally sucked. Not saying that signing Ramirez was directly correlated to signing Crow but its nice to get something.
I know most people want Bowden’s head right now (and I do want to see a replacement), but I don’t think this is his fault. If you read the Nats Journal and believe Bowden, which in this case I do since we have heard a few reports of Crow asking for at least $8 million, I do believe Bowden when he says that Crow’s initial number was $9 million 3 days ago. And that Crows people didn’t come down from that until less than an hour before the signing deadline.
I’m sorry but $9 million is crazy, Alonzo, Posey and Alveraz weren’t asking for $9 million and all were drafted ahead of Crow and only one of which ended up recieving an ML contact. I do feel that Crows agents represented him in bad faith, not even the Yankees would have paid Crow $9 million much less half of that which is what they came down to as their offer. Crow should not have gotten both a ML contract an over a million more than Matusz, who is a better pitcher. Crow got a more than fair deal and I feel like him and his agents were using the Nats ‘desperation’ to their advantage and i DON’T WANT any player that thinks so little of the team that he will exploit their weaknesses.
#24 by SlowPitch63 - August 16th, 2008 at 06:23
Brian, First – thanks for being here for us and sheparding us through this whole ordeal. We depend on you wtihout taking you for granted. Second – ARRRRGH. The Nats have broken the covenant. We were patient with the rebuilding according to the Plan. They showed they can not be counted on to execute their own plan. I’m not sure if it is decption or incompetence or both.
Let’s play two!
#25 by John O. - August 16th, 2008 at 07:11
Most of the articles say that Hendricks said thast Crow “would have taken $4 million,” which is not the same as saying that Crow made a proposal to sign for $4 million.
I’d rather they signed the kid, but I’m not mortified as if this is the end of The Plan. The Nats are big losers only if Crow becomes an All-Star type, or at least a #2 starter. Just for kicks, I looked at college pitchers drafted in the top ten from 1993-2002 (I went back to 2002 because I originally was going to start in 2004 but there were still a lot of guys where the jury was still out on whether they were going to make it or not). What I found was that there were 5 guys who, in my estimation were difference-makers who have not had severe injury problems: Ben Sheets, Barry Zito, Mark Mulder, Jeff Francis, Jon Garland.
By contrast, there were 25 college pitchers taken in the top 10 who either never made it, made the majors and weren’t really that good, or made it and were good but had their career derailed REALLY early by injuries (the Mark Prior example). Of the non-difference makers, the best of the bunch were guys like Braden Looper and Kris Benson, interchangeable guys who fill out the back of your rotation.
Still, if the “hit” rate is 1 out of 6, you need to take a bunch to try to get the 1. And if Crow is an All-Star, the Nats really blew it. And that is a big risk the team is taking.
Crow is the one with the big, big risk. What if he gets hurt? What if it turns out the best pitching year of his life was last year? This seems like a big gamble to take over a couple hundred thousand. The team fares poorly if he is Tom Glavine, or Greg Maddux, or even Jeff Francis, but you can recover from that. What if Crow ends up being Matt Anderson?
#26 by pahou - August 16th, 2008 at 07:13
The real loser is Crow, because there is no guarantee that he will preform well in the independent league and then what will he do. He really missed out on the chance to be a “rich young bastard”. Everyone keeps blaming Bowden when in reality he has a boss also, and we dont and we will never really know the truth.
#27 by EdDC - August 16th, 2008 at 07:43
The Nats failed in the off-season, picking up a bunch of old, slow guys who can’t play any more. They failed during the season, losing 100 games or more, many unwatchable after the third inning or so. And now they failed to sign their #1 pick just to protect their million dollars or less. These guys are failures!
Brian, you say both sides are to blame?
On the bright side, there are a lot better things to do on a summer evening than watch these creeps.
Even if they climb way up to .500 ball some year fairly soon, and have some good prospects in their system, I’ll just think what could have been if they had focused on winning rather than on their little budgets.
Just remember: Tony Williams, DC mayor, approved of a good owners’ group, but MLB took DC money and ditched the better group. Sad day for our town. I don’t believe in them any more!
#28 by Bob L. Head - August 16th, 2008 at 07:56
Agreed, incompetence all around. Evidently, Bowden said slot, Hendricks said nothing until Tuesday, when he said $9 million. Bowden then said there was nothing worth talking about. So, they didn’t negotiate until 11:40 last night, and they “ran out of time” to split the difference at $4 million. This is an abject failure all around. And on the Nationals side, cause for firing the GM in my book, and taking a skeptical view of The Plan. Brian, thanks for all of the coverage. All, count me out for a bit. Right after I sign Steven’s petition.
#29 by MiLBfan - August 16th, 2008 at 08:00
I, too, am not a JimBow fan, BUT am of the opinion that he was correct in his dealings with Crow. When you ask for $9 million and do not change it till 20 min before the deadline, and then you still demand not only above slot, but above what Matusz received, it just would not make business sense to accept the Crow offer. Make no mistake, the client (Crow) calls the shots, and the agents only make recommendations. So, with only 20 minutes left, Crow comes down to a number that he knew was still absurdly high. $700,000 or $900,000 is A LOT of money. As more comes out, and you look at Crow’s posturing — not revealing his $ demands before the draft, no changes in demand till 11:40, refusing to visit our stadium, signing with an Independent team, I have little respect for Crow. Still not thrilled with JimBow, and fans have lots to be angry about, but regarding Crow — he was right.
#30 by Other Marc with a C - August 16th, 2008 at 08:09
I agree on the incompetence all around theory, but the FO less so then the agents.
The fact is if someone tells you for months that they will take 9 million and nothing less, you start not listening. Now a good GM and FO will let that slide off their back and when the agent suddenly drops his price, come back to the table as if nothing happened. JimBlow could not do that because he is who he is.
Overall the FO showed themselves willing to go over slot to sign players, so while the agent may say that the FO was married to slot the whole time, that seems less credible then JimBlow just saying that as long as the agent was asking for, and intended to keep to, a 9 million demand, we have no reason to talk.
Like I said, a better GM lets all the BS of the last months slide off his back and get to work when it came down to it. JimBlow could not and for this, and everything else, we are better served with a more professional GM.
#31 by hartmanbirge - August 16th, 2008 at 08:23
Let’s remember too that Crowe isn’t the biggest guy and had that quirky delivery. To me he’s an injury waiting to happen albeit his ceiling is tantalizing. He made a massive mistake in my mind and his agents are fools. We end up losers as well – not nowhere near the loser that Crowe is. He was “chasing the money and not the game” which is what Bowden said differentiates the good ones. But why didn’t they know this about his character BEFORE the draft? Here’s the skinny on Bowden:
The Good? 1. Lastings Milledge trade 2. Taking the chance on Elijah Dukes 3. Jesus Flores 4. Signing Harris 5. Finding Redding, Perez, and Shell 6. The Rauch trade for Bonafacio 7. The McGeary contract 8. Trading Hernandez for Chico and Mock
Not sure which of the two above is the real Jim Bowden
#32 by Other Marc with a C - August 16th, 2008 at 08:28
hartmanbirge – the FireJimBowden website has a nice review of all his moves, but I think your point is a good one – JimBlow has done some good stuff, but nothing that I would say means he has to stay, and given his general incompetence at speaking, and my points above about his letting the agent get to him, and his d of the mouth in general, I think it is time for a change.
I think you can defend JimBlow, I just don’t want to anymore.
#33 by MikeS - August 16th, 2008 at 08:54
Let me jump in with you all, Jim Bowden has to go. I have watched his stupid moves and trades for far to long now.
With that said though, I have no problem not signing Crow. If they were asking for something in the 9 million range, that’s insane. He would have been better served with different representation. The number one overall pick didn’t get a deal like that.
Let’s not forget, that slot money for his position was still a multi million dollar deal. More money than most of us will see in a lifetime. So I don’t think we really blame the Nationals or Crow. The blame is simply greed either with the player or more than likely the agents.
I hope he has fun in independent ball the rest of this year and next spring. And we’ll see how far he drops next year and how much greed has cost him.
Makes you look at players like Zimmerman and Detwiler in a different light.
#34 by Marc - August 16th, 2008 at 09:03
Brian,
I’m with you on the “general incompetence” point – this is a “plague on both your houses” moment for me – Crow sounds completely unreasonable – the not moving until 11:40 thing is completely ridiculous. I’d argue that the agent at some point owes it to his client to say “Look, this is the best number we’re getting, and it’s 3.3 million more than you have now” and Bowden owes it to the team to say “Look, we’re $900,000 apart, and if we want to get it done, that’s what it’s going to take” and they owe it to each other to say “How about we split the difference?”
I gotta say, they both sound like complete posturing douchebags – I knew Bowden was, but to have objective proof is outrageous. I hope it’s not lost on the Nats that Rizzo got his difficult deal (Nieto) done, and Bowden came up empty. Regardless of the details, at some point, a deal needs to happen. I’m disappointed, but I don’t see it as proof of the failure of the Plan or anything like that.
#35 by EdDC - August 16th, 2008 at 09:17
Regarding the blaming of Crow, who apparently is all of a sudden not as good a pitcher as we once thought he was:
The Nats and Crow both played chicken for several days, not talking, driving up to the cliff’s edge near midnight.
Crow put the brakes on first. But the Nats couldn’t respond fast enough because they ran out of time? So they both ran off the cliff?
You gotta be ready in this business. The Nats must have known their financial parameters. If $4 million was too much, they knew that. They didn’t just start to think “what are we gonna do now?” at 11:40 pm.
It’s not Crow’s fault that the Nats couldn’t react in time! You have to assume the Nats had some little budget ceiling fixed in their minds, and Crow would not meet it.
So OK, both were at fault. But the “not enough time” excuse is not good enough. It’s the little budget that won out for the owners.
Note: I’ll still root for the Nats to meet their financial goals, but take much less interest to what happens on the field, since that is not the real game.
#36 by Steve - August 16th, 2008 at 09:26
What we have here is a failure to negotiate. All eligible first round picks were signed except Crow. Now it is possible that Crow had the worst agents in the first round but what is more likely is that both sides overestimated their leverage i.e. Crow unable to better his position and the Nationals desperate for professional talent. If the Nationals plan is to build from within than the GM that they need or must have working for them needs to be a skilled negotiator. I think as bad as Crow’s agents are this situation would not have been very different with any other player chosen. The pressure on the National in next years draft will be even greater. I think the Learners will have to realize that they are currently in an unenviable position of having to overpay for talent. If and when the Nats improve the situation will change. The Learners may be correct that Crow was not worth what he was asking but saving a little under a million dollars now might cost them many millions later.
#37 by Marcus - August 16th, 2008 at 10:08
Bowden hasn’t done anything for his job security this year. It’s the GM’s job to negotiate with the number 1 pick and he failed we didn’t get the man signed. Plus he put together the worst team in baseball. He definetly needs to go his fault or not something has’d to be done. It’ll be interesting to find out who was negotiating with Ramirez and Hood? If it was Rizzo looks like he’s way better at this negotiating business! Maybe he’ll be a better GM next year too, we can only hope…
As far as Crow goes the man is very talented. But this honestly was an idiotic move for his career. I know he has agent fees he needs to pay and this morning he didn’t wake up a millionaire. If his demands began at 9 million he might’ve been more “about the money than the game” as Bowden has said.
Still though everyone knew he was going to want big money before the draft. We drafted the man knowing that. So we should’ve been prepared to pay dude big money not been offering him slot, or whatever they’d been offering. We should’ve drafted Smoak in the first place, but they we’re prolly still in the mindset of Marrero is the future first basemen.
Welp now we have two picks in the top 10 next year. So this will definetly be interesting I hope the FO is ready to spend big money because that is what it’s going to take to sign two top 10 picks.
Brian it’d be interesting to see the draft order as it stands today if you get a chance, thanks!!
#38 by Brewer - August 16th, 2008 at 10:29
Maybe I am just trying to look on the bright side here, but I have to wonder if the FO did not decide to use this negotiation to set up talks with Strasberg next year. If history were to show that the Nats always cave at the last minute, those negotiations become even harder than they will be now. Next year’s draft is also supposed to be exceptionally deep, so this may also have been a calculation that the number 10 pick in next year’s draft will almost surely be better than Crowe. Here’s hoping that is the case (and that they fire Bowden by then)!
#39 by John O. - August 16th, 2008 at 11:01
Oh, on post 25, remove Jon Garland. He was a high school puitcher. So my list of difference makers is 4.
#40 by dian - August 16th, 2008 at 22:03
listening to all of this heresay avout Crow, Crow, Crow, reminds me of Farve, Farve, Farve. SICK of HEARING them whine about the almighy dollar. I’m going out for ice cream!!!!
#41 by Bob L - August 17th, 2008 at 07:40
I believe that Crow and his agents are at fault. The Nats didn’t get a reasonable counter offer until 20 minutes before the deadline. If they were interested in getting the deal done, they would have made the contact earlier in the day and made it directly rather than by email. As a result, Crow will start earning big money next year…and risk an injury that cuts the number down. and his agents get “zero”, which is what there efforts in signing Crow were worth. The deal could have been done with more time and Crow would have had time to pitch this season and in fall ball rather than in an obscure independent league. His agents played chicken…and the Nats had the uppper hand because “we” get a replacement pick for Crow next season. Time will tell whether it was worthwhile to overpay Crow, but the risk of signing any number one pick is uncertain until the player reaches the majors. The Nats did sign their other top ten picks and the vast majority of their 11-30 picks. Over time, it is possible that many of these picks will outperform Crow. There is safety in numbers and I believe the Nats took a major step in building a successful franchise.